Finance

314: From Stay-At-Home Mom to an $845M Acquisition: How Drunk Elephant’s Tiffany Masterson Made The Leap

When Tiffany Masterson was a stay-at-home mom, she was always looking for ways to make a little extra money. One of the early side hustles she took on was selling a brand of bar cleanser.

Little did she know that she would soon develop a passion for skincare, cultivate her own philosophy around what skincare should look like, and launch Drunk Elephant—a brand that was eventually sold to Shiseido in 2019 for a whopping $845 million.

In this podcast episode, Masterson takes us through her unexpected journey as an entrepreneur—from having her brother-in-law as her first investor to snagging a partnership with Sephora, to building an incredible company culture.

If there’s any other type of content you’d like to see that would be valuable to you during this time, please don’t hesitate to reach out at [email protected]

Nathan: The first question I ask everyone that comes on is, how did you get your job?

Tiffany: Well, I kind of created my job. I was a stay at home mom of four children and I was always looking for something extra to do on the side for extra money. And I started selling this bar cleanser on the side. Actually, my brother in law and then my brother and his wife all kind of brought this bar to me and said, “We sell it.” So I started selling it in Texas from my house and while I was selling this bar for a couple of years I really got interested in ingredients. And it wasn’t like … The bar was very basic. But I found that when I was selling this bar to consumers that they would call me back or email me back and ask me what they should use with it. And during that process, they would tell me what was going on with their skin. And I love to help people and I always love to find solutions. So I think during those two years I really spent a lot of time trying to connect with people. What were their issues? Trying to understand why.

And I had issues of my own I met with my own skin. And then I think the fact that I was selling this bar sort of led me down this path of learning that I had this passion for learning about ingredients, their roles they play. What are these issues people have with their skin? Could the ingredients we’re using be causing those issues? And I started studying ingredients and taking apart ingredient decks and analysing the roles that these ingredients were playing and the claims around the products, and not coming from a scientist background at all. Really coming as a consumer. I was thinking like a consumer and I was learning like a consumer, and so it was making sense to in a different way.

I started studying the skin itself, the skin organ, how it functions, the acid mantle that’s on the surface of our skin, the fact that our skin all has that acid mantle and it all functions the same way, even if it’s in a different state. Meaning like some people’s skin is sensitive or sensitised and we have all different sort of issues with our skin, but really kind of drilling down and understanding how skin thrives and what it takes for skin to function well in order for it to be healthy. So I did that for a couple years and I really felt at the end of the two years that I was ready to do my own line. I was tired of selling one product. That product was not something we owned, so it was time for me to move on. And I talked to my brother and law and just said, “I feel like I’ve learned enough. I want to help people and I feel like I’ve stumbled upon this philosophy that there are certain ingredients out there, certain categories of ingredients out there that we should really be avoiding that we’re not avoiding as consumers and we don’t know enough about as consumers.”

And I started kind of creating these products on paper, just kind of like if I were to go and buy a vitamin C or if I were to go and buy a sunscreen or a glycolic acid product or a cleanser, what would that look like? What would they contain? What would I want as a consumer to see on the back of that box? What’s my dream product, in other words? And so I started pen to paper and coming up with ideas and choosing ingredients. And this is well before I found a chemist actually. This was just me kind of creating these products that I felt would be just kind of dream products based on my philosophy of avoiding six categories of ingredients.

At the same time, I was trying to … I agreed with my brother in law that he would be my investor, so I finally went, found a chemist. After trying to connect with different people I ended up using a chemist in Los Angeles and I sent my ideas to her on paper, my formulations or my ingredient decks. And she came back and said, “Wow. These are really good.” And I mean, obviously I didn’t have the amounts on them, but I had the ingredients put together. And she said, “These look interesting. They look different, and they feel very interesting and innovative.” And I was very inspired by health and wellness. I’m very inspired by eating well and healthy foods and antioxidants and studying all about supplements. And so that kind of played a role into how I was choosing ingredients also.

And I also did a lot of reading and researching around, what do we need in our daily routine? What do people basically need? And what I came up with was a low pH balance cleanser, a moisturising oil or moisturiser loaded with antioxidants, a vitamin C serum, a glycolic or a chemically exfoliating serum, which is my TLC serum, a physical sun block, as opposed to a chemical sunscreen. And that’s what I launched with. I launched with kind of everything you need and nothing you don’t, meaning I was using ingredients that were there to benefit the health of your skin and only making products that represent the whole solution for somebody so that they could come into the line, try to benefit from the philosophy that I created, and see which products worked best for them. That’s how I started.

Nathan: Yeah, wow. So when was this?

Tiffany: This was in 2011 and ’12. I really worked all of ’11, and then all of ’12, and really most of ’13 actually. So let’s go back and say more like half of ’11, all of ’12, and all of ’13. I launched the line of six products in late 2013, in August 2013. And only my own little website, because I really wanted to take a year and see what feedback I got. I wanted to hear what the consumers really felt. I wanted to really listen and have a back and forth with the consumer. I didn’t want to just launch and then sort of … But I just really knew that I wanted to be in touch with my consumer and learn from them. And when they asked me questions, it would force me to continue learning every day and challenge me, and that’s exactly what happened. I really, really listened and really worked hard on the formulations to tweak them, tweak the packaging where it was necessary, make the changes, because I just really wanted to be open to the constructive criticism that I would get.

And I got a tonne of it, and it was super valuable, and I used it to learn more. And my philosophy was resonating really well with the consumers. They had some tweaking and some fine tuning that they helped me to do they line. And then once that was over, I was able to then in 2014, around the same time … So I let this happen for a year. And then around late July 2014, I was ready to present my line at a place called Cosmoprof in Vegas. And I got picked to be in the Discovery Room actually it was called. And I was so excited and I had my little booth, it was all white with pops of colour, and I had my six products. And that is where Sephora met me and I was able to talk to them about the line and my philosophy, and they told me at that point that they weren’t going to pick anybody up for 2015. They only picked up a certain number of brands a year, they weren’t interested in picking me up.

And I wasn’t defeated, I still was very hopeful. I didn’t take it very seriously. I kind of thought, “Okay. One door closes, another one opens.” I kind of knew in my heart that if it was meant to be, it would. And sure enough, two weeks later Sephora called me, reached out by email and said, “Is there any way we can talk about a potential partnership?” And they launched me January 2015. So I think I used all of that time in between there to my benefit. I really, really listened. I really learned. I really tried to work with my focus group, which is who my consumer was, and tweak it to the point that I was ready to really present it to the right retailers. I was picky. I didn’t want to just launch it anywhere. I really wanted to launch it where I felt I would find myself shopping. Where would I personally shop for something? And that’s really where I wanted the brand to be.

Nathan: Would you be able to share kind of, how much did it cost to work with a chemist and do a first line? How many units do you need for six products in a line?

Tiffany: It cost a lot. I ended up with 5000 units of each product. And by the time we formulated them, chose the packaging, did the website, all of that … And I only had, I had a contract person helping me with design, and I was doing myself, I was going to the packaging company myself and choosing stuff. So we didn’t have an employee. We had a couple people helping us and that was it. But it was around $250 or $300000 dollars that it cost. Now, this was my brother in law’s money and I didn’t put in a dollar because I didn’t have any money at the time. But my brother in law did have money and he loves to invest in stuff. But he got uncomfortable. After a year, he got real uncomfortable and wanted to end up getting some of his money back out of it. And that is what happened. We ended up eventually, later on we ended up bringing in new investors and then he got some of his money back out and he stayed in for a certain amount at a certain percentage.

So I was very lucky to have a brother in law who was probably being pushed and prodded by my sister, if the truth be known, to take that kind of leap of faith and to trust that this wasn’t … Because I was a housewife from Houston, Texas. Truly, there was no reason to believe that my philosophy or anything else was going to work in the beauty world. And I just think you have to take risks like that. And I was so convicted and really so much belief in my philosophy that I never really had a doubt. And it wasn’t that I was cocky. It was more that I was so sure and so excited that I found or stumbled upon this philosophy that could potentially help people like it had helped me with my skin that nothing was going to stop me. I was just very clear on how this was going to play out. And so I think I presented that to my investor, Charles, my brother in law. And I think I presented that that way and I think that he believed in me. So I was very lucky.

Nathan: Yeah. I’m curious, at what point of time did he kind of get uneasy and you needed to find another investor? And what kind of traction was there before you did like … Sephora said they would stock you and put in a PO or-

Tiffany: So I got found out I was getting into Sephora in late 2014. I just had found that out. And so we had a lot of legwork to do, a lot of work to do. And it was around that time that he and I had to have sort of a sit down, figuring out what was the next step. I did end up finding an investor who I had never met before actually in Dallas. It was a business partner, a guy who my brother had done business with before and I had called my brother and said, “Gosh, I don’t know what I’m going to do. Do you know anybody who might want to invest.” And he said, “Well, I’ve got this guy I work with a lot named Walter, and he’s just a great guy. You should fly to Dallas and present to Walter. Pitch him and see if he’s interested.” And so it was around that time that we were getting ready to go into Sephora that I went, flew to Dallas and pitched that to Walter.

And he went for it and he ended up coming in and help a lot with that difficult little spot that we hit. He was able to give Charles back I guess through whatever investment he made, Charles was able to get some of his money back so he was happy where he was. And then Walter came in and actually another guy named Tom came in, who was an attorney, came in for just a little bit. So it was just that little bridge of time where it really, it was like Charles was happy, and then we had a little bit more money and it bought me a little bit more time.

Nathan: Yeah. I see. Because when you get a big retail order, you have to fulfil it so you need cash flow to actually be able to fulfil it. So is that the position you were in to work with Sephora?

Tiffany: Well, it was real hard because Sephora had no idea how to forecast this line. And of course, my team didn’t have any clue what we might do on Sephora.com. We launched on Sephora.com first and I still had plenty of product left from the 5000 because I was only selling on my little website. And so we weren’t producing a bunch of product at that point. But I had found this girl who was sort of in the industry as far as packaging and operations. She had some experience in operations and she was kind of helping. And of course, Sephora helped a lot too. They sort of guide you. “This who you need to hire, this who you need to find. This is what you need to do.” And really, we launched on Sephora.com and nobody knew if it was going to work or not and kind of like, “We’ll see how you do.”

Well, we sold out of several of the products right away, within 11 days. And thankfully, we had already started that process of ordering more packaging and we also had a manufacturer. So we were just on them all the time trying to fill these orders. And thankfully, we were able to do that. We were associated with some good people in the industry as far as this girl that was helping me, she had connected me with a good contract manufacturer. And so we were able to do it until we weren’t, and then we moved to a different manufacturer. So we just took it day by day and just as we got uncomfortable or as we got to a point where, “Gosh, this is not sustainable anymore. We need to go bigger now, we need to hire more people,” that kind of thing, we didn’t really have a plan. We didn’t have a long term plan.

And I say, “We,” but it was really just me and I had a designer at that point and my brother in law, and then a couple of people that had come on to help contract. So we really didn’t have this planned, but we just, we were open minded and I reached out as much as I could to people at Sephora, to people in the industry to help guide me. And that’s just how we did it. And it ended up working out very well and we really never had … We landed on a couple of great contract manufacturers and we have an incredible packaging team and we really never had a supply problem. We’ve always been really able to scale up pretty quickly and make that happen.

Nathan: Yeah. Why do you think that is? You’re always manufacturing in the States, right?

Tiffany: We’ve manufactured in the States, we have. And I don’t know, sometimes when you go back and analyse things and the way they work out, my story, it just feels very easy to tell. And really living it, it felt very natural and easy. It never felt like I was struggling to force something to work. It all felt very, at the risk of sounding corny, it all felt very fateful, things were just happening. And it was kind of like, you feel like to be having things happen the way they happen. But it did always feel very much like a God thing like, “Okay. This is happening for a reason.” I kept stumbling into opportunities and situations that really felt sort of like not completely in my control, but they were all happening in such a way that it was a very good experience. It was a very … I don’t know how else to say it. It was surprising and it all just unfolded very naturally.

Nathan: Yeah, interesting. So fast forward to now. Are you still active in the company? Because you’ve sold it now, right?

Tiffany: Very. Yeah, yeah, I’m very active. I mean, I’m as active as I ever was. And I actually, one of the things I would say to an entrepreneur starting out, I actually think that when you start out doing something you love and it’s something that you want to build and grow and you believe in, what you find yourself doing day to day in those early months or the early years of building a brand, that’s really where I think you should be. In other words, I think that what I was doing was I was formulating products on paper, I was coming up with ingredients, and I was coming up with these product stories. I was choosing products, I wasn’t looking at trends, I wasn’t looking at other brands. I was designing the packaging with my designer, choosing the colours. I designed the logo myself. The marketing, the copy, the design. I wrote all the copy. And that’s what I really love to do.

I help conceptualise all of the videos we do on social media. I like to go on social media and answer the questions, and that’s how I learn and that’s how I grow. And so those are kind of the things that I was attracted to in the beginning, the things I did really well. And now that we’ve grown so much, I think where I’ve seen some founders, I’m not going to say go wrong because we all have our path and we all learn along the way, where I’ve seen some founders sort of struggle and start to say, “Wait, what do I do now?” is when you have somebody who tries to then be also the CEO, also the CFO, also the designer. You can’t wear all those hats and be successful. You have to be able to delegate. You have to be able to choose people who know more than you do in the areas that you’re not strong in.

And so I always really knew that about myself. I always really knew I didn’t belong in finance. I should not be touching certain parts of the business at all like operations. That’s not my strength. And so I realised that I needed to find people in the industry who were the best in class at these things that I wasn’t good at. And I think that’s where a lot of founders can go wrong, is to try to wear too many hats, because it doesn’t work.

Nathan: Yeah. So let’s actually talk about delegation and team, because to be honest, I didn’t know about Drunk Elephant. But definitely all the ladies in our team did, and also my partner. And they’re all really excited. So you’ve done something very special with the brand.

Tiffany: That’s nice.

Nathan: But also, I want to talk about that, but coming back to it, when I started looking into you and your success and the brand, one thing that I found very interesting was the fact that apparently, please correct me if this is true, but apparently no one left the company. You had, I think it was still to this day like 60, 80 staff or so and no one had left. Is that correct?

Tiffany: Yeah. I’ve got 113 and actually three people have resigned and one has come back. So I’ve had two people officially resign from the company since 2013. And we didn’t have anybody in 2013, but we started hiring people in 2014 and ’15, and ’16, and ’17, and ’18. So we have 113 people now and I’m incredibly proud of that. We have a wonderful culture. All of my employees before I sold the company, every single person was an owner. And so every single person had a stake and could say they’re a part of this, they’re a part of building something with me. And we’re all in it together, it’s very much a very fun, loving team culture. It’s not competitive. We’re not competitive with other brands and we’re not competitive with each other. We’re all in it together and we all get to share in the prize at the end of the day. And I think that that created this environment where it was very fun.

And I still haven’t, I’ve had one person leave since we closed the company. And unfortunately, she’s gotten another job. And that is what it is. I think that that’s going to happen. But I think that’s one of my things that I’m most proud of, is my culture and the people.

Nathan: Yeah. That’s really interesting. So all of those people were I assume on an ESOP, employee stock options plan?

Tiffany: Yes. They all, with their employment package, received a certain amount of shares. And so yeah. Based on tenure and based on performance and obviously they all stayed, and everybody performed very well. So when we sold the company, it was one of those days where people opened up their bank account and found quite a bit of money there because they earned it. And I could not have done it without them. I think it goes a long way as far as making sure that you’re taking care of people who are getting out of bed for you every day to go and work and spend time. But they wanted to be there. And I think everyone was very passionate about what we were doing, passionate about the philosophy. They weren’t just talking about it or selling it, they were actually living it. And I think that makes all the difference in the world. You want to hire people who are already passionate about the brand, not somebody who calls up and you have to teach them about it. They’re telling you about it, you know what I’m saying?

And so I try to interview every single person we hire and talk to them like I’m talking to you right now and listen to them and listen to their attitude and listen to where they’ve been. And it’s pretty quick that you can see or you can hear what somebody … You hear their values. You get them to talk enough and you can really tell the kind of people they are. And so that’s really how I built the team, just trying to find people with shared values, kind people, understanding people. I don’t like cocky, I don’t like competitive. We’re not here to beat out the next brand. We’re here to help people. We’re here to help people with their skin and we’re here to share our philosophy. And that’s what I’ve really preached all along and that’s really what I believe.

Nathan: So I’m curious, when it came to in the early days, so that’s something you decided you would do out the gate, you would do an employee stock options plan when you started hiring people?

Tiffany: It’s something I always knew I wanted to do. But it’s not something I even knew where to begin. I was a part of a company, I worked for a company, a startup software company years ago. And I worked there for two, three years, and I never asked for stock. And then they sold the company and everybody was screaming up and down, jumping for joy because there was a bunch of new millionaires in the room. But there were a lot of us there that worked there that didn’t get anything. So I remember that day. So when I started my company I always thought if I had the opportunity to do the same thing, but not the same thing, do it the opposite way which is to make everybody an owner who works for us, then when we have that party we’re all going to be jumping up and down. It’s not just going to be 10 people in the corner. It’s going to be everyone. And so I knew that I wanted to do that. It wasn’t until I brought in a private equity firm, , where we sat down.

Because they had a lawyer they brought in to help represent and you go through all that stuff. “How do you want this company to be set up?” And they asked the question and I said, “Absolutely this is …” “Do you want to do it this way or do you want to do it this way?” And I said, “I want to do it this way.” They were telling me examples of what different founders had done in the past. And, “This founder decided not to do it that way, this founder decided to give some employees some ownership, this founder …” And I said, “I want to give every single employee from the receptionist up to the CEO a part of this company.” And so that was what we did.

Nathan: So I guess at that point in time when you brought in private equity you were aware that you wanted to sell the company, right?

Tiffany: Absolutely, I was. I didn’t know how long. I had no idea to who or anything like that and I also knew that I didn’t have to sell it for five years if we brought them on. That was kind of our deal, that it was like in five years, if we didn’t want to sell it we could buy them out or we could sell it, or we could sell it before then. So yes, I did know that.

Nathan: Okay, interesting. So I’d love to talk a little more and delve a little deeper around the culture and perhaps things that you did. Because that’s incredible retention, and I assume some of those people who have vested as well. So they still stuck around when they wouldn’t need to. So I’d love to hear, like what things do you think that was unique about your company culture that made it a great place to work?

Tiffany: I have to say, sometimes I think that behavior’s allowed and sometimes I think that there’s a push to be competitive and a push to be cutthroat and a push to be competitive with each other and also with other brands. And for me, I just don’t like that style. For me, I feel like I like to be more understanding. I like to think of myself as a kind person. I’m pretty shy. I get my feelings hurt easily, so I’m super sensitive. I really wanted people in my company that had the same sensibility. I don’t like mean girl stuff, I don’t like to be exclusive, I don’t like people getting left out. I like to be honest, I like to be transparent. There’s a lot of times when people on my team have come to me and said, “Hey, how do we explain that we just changed the packaging on ?” And my answer is always the same, anyone will tell you that. “Just tell the truth.”

Because a lot of times, I think brands try to sugarcoat things or for whatever reason they come up with a different story and I never understood that. I never understood why you couldn’t just say, “You know what? We screwed up.” Or, “That formulation wasn’t good because we screwed up and so we’re going to fix it for you.” Or, “We’re changing because that jar was discontinued.” It was almost like some of the marketing people I had that had been in the industry, that was foreign to them. It was foreign to them to not treat the consumer like they’re our equal. They’re paying a lot of money for our products and we owe them tip top treatment. So I think that there’s this brand consumer thing. And so I was always really careful people to hire people who were kind, understated, well educated, invested, passionate, inclusive people. And I think when you make that extra effort and you really don’t put up with … I didn’t say that we never terminated anyone. We have terminated people. Not very many. It’s happened four or five times in all these years, but it’s happened.

Nathan: I’d like to switch gears now and really talk about the brand, because you’ve created a brand that, like I said, people in my team were just really excited that we were interviewing and featuring you and they’re very familiar with Drunk Elephant. So why do you think that is?

Tiffany: I think there could be several different reasons. I think at the end of the day, the products really have to work, and I think that’s why we have the consumer base that we have. But I think in the beginning, if you’re just seeing the brand, it’s a fun name. It’s happy looking. It’s a happy brand. We like to have fun. We like to put animations up on the Instagram, we like to make fun of ourselves, we like to have a sense of humour. We like to design these packages with bright, happy colours that look great on your cabinet. We like to talk to the consumer like they’re our best girlfriend sitting on the couch because that’s how we feel. We like to share our philosophy, we don’t try to force it down anyone’s throat. We’re just here to share in an effort to help people.

But at the end of the day, all of that is great, but that won’t sustain a brand. What sustains a brand is whether or not it works and whether or not the consumer is actually buying something with their money, taking it home, and seeing something positive happen. And so I really, my priority is my consumer, period. And I need to deliver something that actually works. Not that they think works, that really does work. And I also need to deliver it with a new way of thinking about skincare and giving them hope that this is something they’ve never tried before. And I think that is the thing that attracts people to the brand. It does represent a different way of thinking. It represents hope. It represents something that’s fun, that doesn’t take itself very easily. And so it’s not intimidating to the consumer, it’s very inviting, it’s welcoming. It’s kind, it’s happy, it’s fun, and it works. And so I think people feel good about supporting something that they get results from, and I just think it’s that simple.

Nathan: I love it. And so far from our conversation, it sounds like a lot of things have worked. Do you think that there’s anything that you would have differently or anything that didn’t work or experiences you could share with our audience there?

Tiffany: There have been lots of situations along the way that you kind of and go, “Okay. What are we going to do now? How are we going to do this?” I tend not to look back at some of that stuff as big mistakes, because I think every single time I’ve made mistakes, and I’ve made plenty, they’ve ended up being things that have sort of pushed us in a new direction possibly and a better way. I think the path we took really helped us grow in the right way and I don’t think that … I mean, yes. There are things that I maybe would have chosen not to do along the way. There have been mistakes I’ve made that I’ve had to immediately fix. Every mistake we’ve made we’ve immediately and openly fixed publicly, we don’t try to hide it.

I’ll tell you one thing I wish I wouldn’t have done. I wish that in my effort to help people on social media answer all the questions and really be connected and learn there, I wish that I wouldn’t have gotten sucked in by some of the mean stuff that happens out there. Because my whole reason for being I think is because I didn’t look around and I didn’t look at other brands and I didn’t look … All I cared about really was the feedback from my consumer, which is always constructive. But then you go out there, you start reading other stuff, it sort of takes you off track. And I know that sounds like such a small thing. But when you live on social media and you’re really there trying to help, I think it can be a very toxic environment on there if you read too much. That may not be the best answer, but I’m just trying to think of things I’ve done or wasted my time on over these years that I wish I could take back.

Nathan: Yeah, no, that’s totally fine. All you can do is … I can see from our conversation you’re a very open, honest person and extremely self aware. So if there is nothing that you would change or any big mistakes that you’d like to highlight, that’s totally fine.

Tiffany: Yeah. I really appreciate like the things that have gone wrong. Self correction is so important. When something were to happen I always thought, “Wow, this is eye opening and this is great. And this tells us that we need to do this now.” And then you correct. It always ends up being gratifying because it’s nice to be accountable for your own stuff, and it’s nice to acknowledge it, fix it, and move on. That’s the best way to grow.

Nathan: Yeah, I agree 100%. So we have to work towards wrapping up, so a couple more questions. One, any like final words that you’d like to share? And then, two, where’s the best place people can find out more about yourself and your work?

Tiffany: Think what I would say is just to somebody who’s building a brand, somebody who’s starting out is, I think it’s super tempting to try to look at what’s already out there, look at what your competition’s going to be and try to be better than your competition or outsmart your competition, and I think that’s a mistake. I think what founders and what entrepreneurs should be doing is just pulling from their gut, from their own needs as a consumer and really just following that. There’s a lot of people out there in the world, too many to please, but if you focus on one person, which is yourself, the founder and the entrepreneur, there’s going to be a lot of people out there like you and they’re going to have your same needs, wants, desires, right?

And I think it’s just pulling from your gut, pulling from your own idea, your own vision, and not listening so much to a bunch of the noise. It makes you unique, it makes you stand out, and it makes sure you’re bringing something to the market that is really different and unique. You’re not pulling from someone else’s work. It’s really coming from a special place that way and it’s natural that way, and you can run a brand that way and grow a brand that way because if you’re always pulling from the same place then you’re always on the same track. You’re not trying to be someone you’re not. Just be yourself. That’s the main thing I think that has helped me grow this brand and keep this brand unique. It has a strong DNA, we really know who we are, and we’re not trying to change or switch up our story to keep up. We just are who we are.

And I think to learn more about me and the brand, we have a lot of information on the website. I’ve done a tonne of interviews that are out there where I’ve shared a lot out there about the way I started the brand. And there’s countless interviews online. But I would say also on Sundays on social media on Drunk Elephant Instagram, we go on on Sundays and people ask questions. And they can ask any question they want and we answer every question. And it’s to learn about our brand and learn about our philosophy and learn about how to use our products and learn about ingredients and to hear constructive feedback and constructive criticism. And people ask questions when they get confused about something that they’re doing with the line and we answer all that.

And I think it’s a quick way to go back, you can go back every … Some Sundays we skip but most Sundays we’re there. There’s a hashtag, social Sunday, and reading through those is going to tell you everything would want to know I think.

Nathan: That’s really fascinating. Awesome. Well, look, I won’t take any more of your time, Tiffany, but thank you so much. That was a really amazing interview and I think it will help a lot of founders. So thank you for taking the time.

Tiffany: Oh, thank you so much for including me. Thank you. It’s nice to talk to you.

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